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PIP and ESA assessments web forum

Work and Pensions Committee

The web forum closed on Friday 10 November 2017.

If you have had an assessment, or are waiting for an assessment, for PIP or ESA, we'd like to hear from you.

You might want to tell us about:

  • Did you feel that the right decision on your entitlement to ESA/PIP was reached as a result of your initial assessment?
  • If not—what do you feel were the reasons for this?
  • If you have experience of Mandatory Reconsideration, did you find this stage effective and useful? How might it be improved?
  • Overall, how "claimant-friendly" did you find the assessment process?
  • What steps would you recommend taking to improve it?

We have received an overwhelming response on this forum and we are really grateful to all of you who have posted. We moderate this forum so posts that breach discussion rules do not appear: please bear with us while we approve and post the comments you've sent us. Please be assured we are reading them all, and what you have told us will contribute to our inquiry.

Please read the forum terms and conditions and discussion rules before posting your comment.

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2826 Contributions (since 28 September 2017)
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Total results 2826 (page 9 of 283)

Jonny D

10 November 2017 at 14:51

(Part 1) Did you feel that the right decision on your entitlement to ESA/PIP was reached as a result of your initial assessment? In 2015, absolutely not. My decision was overturned at tribunal. Had I been forced to remain a jobseeker, I would inevitably be sanctioned for physically being unable to meet the jobseeker requirements, fallen into the escalating levels of sanctions, and then into abject poverty, starvation and death. I had to consider this possibility of horrible death whilst in my early 30s, with my whole life (one would hope) ahead of me. If not—what do you feel were the reasons for this? A failure/refusal to acknowledge chronic pain conditions that get worse as a result of activity. A key thing that kept coming up my report was that my refusal to take painkillers must mean my condition is not that bad, when in fact the pain I receive dramatically increases with the more activities I do, and the pain is my only warning that I need to stop. Should I take painkillers and then do activities, by the time I stop I'll have triggered enormous (but temporarily masked) pain, which I'll then suffer as the painkillers were off. The only long-term solutions to this are endlessly increasing painkillers, or taking none at all. Additionally, the initial assessment was quite cunning and insidious, in that they referred to my chronic RSI as "wrist problem", and noted down every time I'd used my hands during the assessment as proof that my wrists must be fine. It was clearly designed to catch me out, and made no reference to the voice recognition software I have to use every day. Furthermore, the assessor had not even heard of RSI - Repetitive Strain Injury - even though she was supposedly trained in workplace injuries. This was partly why it was incorrectly referred to. If you have experience of Mandatory Reconsideration, did you find this stage effective and useful? How might it be improved? It's completely ineffective. When I called up to initiate it, the person I spoke to happily typed everything I said for 40 minutes, and was really surprised that I was assessed as fit to work, and that he'd never heard a case that should so clearly be overturned. And yet, the decision maker focused on my lack of painkiller-taking, disregarded other evidence, and came to the same "conclusion". Furthermore, studies show that 90% of decisions are upheld at tribunal, and official guidance shows that a target of 80% or more is present. The existence of targets means it is not meant for reassessing whether or not someone is fit for work, it is meant for declaring someone is fit for work. Indirectly, it dissuades genuinely disabled people from appealing, because during the reconsideration period they receive no income and are therefore drained and stressed by the time they get their benefits back having launched the appeal. It could be improved by: 1. Scrapping it, and giving claimants the right to launch appeals immediately. The large number of decisions that are overturned at tribunal despite the mandatory reconsideration, shows that the mandatory reconsideration is almost as inaccurate as the initial assessments - 90% rate of upholding means they are 90% as inaccurate. Quite obviously, any decision that would be overturned in the mandatory reconsideration would be overturned at tribunal, so you could save people-hours and money and stress by just skipping to the most effective assessment, which is the appeal. Furthermore, this delays the point at which someone might launch their appeal and receive the benefits they are owed, keeping them in poverty for far longer than necessary. To reiterate: it is ineffective at what it is trying to do, financially costly, and incurs a human cost. 2. Scrapping the targets for number of decisions overturned. There is no reason for this to be in place. It's like having targets for declaring the number of MPs who secretly murdered someone in their past, or teachers found to deal drugs. Targets like this lead to false positives, and disabled people have literally died by the thousands from these processes. 3. If you had to keep the assessments, have the decisions made by qualified doctors rather than administrators. It is quite clear throughout this whole process that administrative people with a low level of medical knowledge who are under pressure to meet targets and cost savings are at the helm, and that a biased administrator designed the points system. The lack of knowledge guarantees significant inaccuracies, and the existence of targets incentivises inaccurate decisions.

Bryan

10 November 2017 at 14:46

Just had my pip "review" assessment decision scored 0 points and so my pip will be stopped the assessment decision doesnt match anything i had said at the assessment for example my medication is controlled by my partner and the chemist yet on the sheet it says 0 and that i manage my own medication. I suffer from adhd, depressionand lvh a heart condition which can be affected by the meds if i over exert myself. The whole decision and each section is complete lies and fabricated to make me look like I have no problems at all .. Im absolutley disgusted at this decision and the assessor for lying.

Charleen

10 November 2017 at 14:41

I was invited to have a PIP assessment when my DLA was coming to the End I was receiving middle care and low mobility . After three cancelled appointments by Capita through staffing problems . A lady finally came to see me at home. I suffer from three types of seizures Aurora Partial and Tonic clonic , I am also being assessed for Asperges . I asked the Lady if she knew any thing about my condition , Her answer was all ime intrested in is what you can do not your illness . Half way through the meeting we ask the lady if she wanted to see the aquipment I had been given to use her answer was NO NEED ????? . All the way through we was given the impression you look ok so what do you need help for ??? . The Lady told me if I had not heard anything with in 2 weeks to phone up the DWP because they was way behind . When I received my letter I was in shock I had gone from middle care and low mobility to not being awareded any thing I had not scored any thing every question had been marked 0 . ?????????? I phoned DWP up because I was in shock and so stressed I could not believe what I was reading . I asked for a reconsideration and also a copy of capitas report . on receiving the report from capita I just sat and cried it stated that I only had Tonic Clonic seizures and they only happened at night also because they were only 3 times a week I did not need help ???????????. that certainly spells out who ever made the DECISION NOT TO AWARD ME KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT EPILEPSY OR ITS AFFECTS ON THE SUFFERER .Tonic Clonic Seizures are the worst seizures any one can have , No one can predict when or were they will happen or how long they wil last and the affects it as . Tonic Clonic seizures causes more DEATHS than any other SEIZURE , When a tonic clonic seizure happens that person can be knocked off their feet for hours or days depending on the seizure . I sent the papers back for a reconsideration and informed them my consultant would be forwarding a letter on . They did the decision on the 8th of the month and received my consutants letter on the 9th . When I ask about it they said the letter had arrived to late and they were going by the cappita report . That report is totally made up . Nothing is as it was said to her . Also we was in shock when the Lady told us she was a ex care worker ?????????? . How can she assess people with illness that she knows nothing about . I have know got the Stress of going to a Tribunal which is making my Epilepsy worse as its stress related . I feel so ill and sick all the time now , I feel degraded .

Aileen

10 November 2017 at 14:38

I am writing on behalf of my son, who is 31 & has Aspergers. He had to go through the humiliating & degrading experience of the PIPs Assessment. The process had a catastrophic effect on his mental and physical wellbeing. My son’s assessor obviously had no knowledge or understanding of his disability. She monitored him from the moment he entered the building & gave a warped version. She said he had good eye contact when in fact he was focussing on the computer because the whole room was white causing him eye stress. The mental ability test: In the report she stated he got the mental ability questions all right when in fact he got a number wrong. The assessor focussed on my son attending college & had his ‘own’ business. She used this information as ammunition. They stated that as he could cope with college he could ‘cope’ with everyday life, despite it being made clear he only got through college because of the support of people who understood his condition. His ‘business’ had been set up by the job centre as he isn’t able to cope in other work. They recognised, because of Aspergers he has special skills. The assessor & resultant report used his great effort to maintain some sort of normal life against him. They would not accept the evidence of his previous Aspergers assessment, done through the college, & yet used some of this as evidence against him. The questions should be more relevant & consider what he had put into his form. The quality control was definitely not affective. The assessor appeared to fit answers to a prescribed document and did not take any cognisance of what was said. In the subsequent reports, my son actually felt they were moving the goals posts. No recognition was taken of the specific challenges of Aspergers. At the tribunal my son & I felt that we were talking with and listened to by professionals who understood Aspergers and didn’t make unmerited judgements. Their consideration and report was a complete turnaround to the initial report. The PIP representative , asked 1 question based on the ‘historical’ evidence & then bowed out, aware he was wrong. The first report , January 2016, was so unjust and full of inaccuracies and untruths, that we had no other decision than to appeal to overturn the initial assessment. Second report, March 2016 & denial of his PIP affected his Tax Credits. He had no money from April to August 2016. He was unable to go to the job centre, it would have affected his right to appeal. Fortunately I could give him some help. My son was driven to appeal, despite his diminishing health, because of the injustice of the report. The MR process is absolutely not working. Despite putting in a well considered appeal for Mandatory Reconsideration , supported by a Voluntary Organisation & our local MP, he was still denied PIP, BASED ON INACCURACIES & UNTRUTHS. The reply to the MR shocked us, especially my son who felt that everything he had achieved, his efforts at getting through college etc, shouldn’t have been done. He felt worthless. My son was fortunate that others listened, realised how wrong the initial report was and supported him to apply for MR & eventually the appeal. His local MSP & eventually MP, were in constant contact, but the main source of help was a voluntary group who understood his disability. He had a medical assessment with a psychiatrist, which had never been required before, who categorically & accurately stated my son has Aspergers and the effect it has on daily life. Applying for MR was a joke, they obviously only considered the inaccurate initial report put in by the assessor from ATOS & did not consider our reply. My son felt his character was being assassinated & suffered severe mental stress. The main change should be using assessors who are authentically employed, to assess people; Assessors who have a genuine knowledge of the wide variety of conditions and how they affect day to day living. The time from my son’s initial assessment through MR was 8 months. This was a shocking length of time. My son was able to understand the purpose of the assessment, once I had explained it to him. However he did need my support to attend the assessment. All claimants have problems specific to them but ASD/ Aspergers’ have specific difficulties with understanding and filling in forms. My son found some of the questions confusing.. He felt a lot of questions were vague or to do with physical difficulties. There was a real disparity between the initial ATOS assessor’s account of the assessment & consequent report and our awareness of the process. Fortunately my son’s account was recognised at the appeal as being the true and accurate one.

David

10 November 2017 at 14:25

1. I applied for PPIS and ESA on the 22 August. Inly had my PIP assessment 2 weeks ago for PUPs and ESA next week. They told me application only received on 11 August because that is when they received firm. It could take 5 months for applications to cone through as PIPs people said it would take another 6-8 ,weeks. 2. Phone numbers are 55p a minute 0345 numbers. 3'Questions are deliberately deceptive. I have vision in only one eye and a detached retina in the other and anm partially sighted. I am an optimistic person. On a nine day.uf you ask me uf I have too many problems going out I would say not really. However if the sun's too bright or it's too dark and there are headlights in front of you it's a different matter.

Aileen

10 November 2017 at 14:23

I am writing on behalf of my son, who is 31 & has Aspergers. He had to go through the humiliating & degrading experience of the PIPs Assessment. The process had a catastrophic effect on his mental and physical wellbeing. My son’s assessor obviously had no knowledge or understanding of his disability. She monitored him from the moment he entered the building & gave a warped version. She said he had good eye contact when in fact he was focussing on the computer because the whole room was white causing him eye stress. The mental ability test: In the report she stated he got the mental ability questions all right when in fact he got a number wrong. The assessor focussed on my son attending college & had his ‘own’ business. She used this information as ammunition. They stated that as he could cope with college he could ‘cope’ with everyday life, despite it being made clear he only got through college because of the support of people who understood his condition. His ‘business’ had been set up by the job centre as he isn’t able to cope in other work. They recognised, because of Aspergers he has special skills. The assessor & resultant report used his great effort to maintain some sort of normal life against him. They would not accept the evidence of his previous Aspergers assessment, done through the college, & yet used some of this as evidence against him. The questions should be more relevant & consider what he had put into his form. The quality control was definitely not affective. The assessor appeared to fit answers to a prescribed document and did not take any cognisance of what was said. In the subsequent reports, my son actually felt they were moving the goals posts. No recognition was taken of the specific challenges of Aspergers. At the tribunal my son & I felt that we were talking with and listened to by professionals who understood Aspergers and didn’t make unmerited judgements. Their consideration and report was a complete turnaround to the initial report. The PIP representative , asked 1 question based on the ‘historical’ evidence & then bowed out, aware he was wrong. The first report , January 2016, was so unjust and full of inaccuracies and untruths, that we had no other decision than to appeal to overturn the initial assessment. Second report, March 2016 & denial of his PIP affected his Tax Credits. He had no money from April to August 2016. He was unable to go to the job centre, it would have affected his right to appeal. Fortunately I could give him some help. My son was driven to appeal, despite his diminishing health, because of the injustice of the report. The MR process is absolutely not working. Despite putting in a well considered appeal for Mandatory Reconsideration , supported by a Voluntary Organisation & our local MP, he was still denied PIP, BASED ON INACCURACIES & UNTRUTHS. The reply to the MR shocked us, especially my son who felt that everything he had achieved, his efforts at getting through college etc, shouldn’t have been done. He felt worthless. My son was fortunate that others listened, realised how wrong the initial report was and supported him to apply for MR & eventually the appeal. His local MSP & eventually MP, were in constant contact, but the main source of help was a voluntary group who understood his disability. He had a medical assessment with a psychiatrist, which had never been required before, who categorically & accurately stated my son has Aspergers and the effect it has on daily life. Applying for MR was a joke, they obviously only considered the inaccurate initial report put in by the assessor from ATOS & did not consider our reply. My son felt his character was being assassinated & suffered severe mental stress. The main change should be using assessors who are authentically employed, to assess people; Assessors who have a genuine knowledge of the wide variety of conditions and how they affect day to day living. The time from my son’s initial assessment through MR was 8 months. This was a shocking length of time. My son was able to understand the purpose of the assessment, once I had explained it to him. However he did need my support to attend the assessment. All claimants have problems specific to them but ASD/ Aspergers’ have specific difficulties with understanding and filling in forms. My son found some of the questions confusing.. He felt a lot of questions were vague or to do with physical difficulties. There was a real disparity between the initial ATOS assessor’s account of the assessment & consequent report and our awareness of the process. Fortunately my son’s account was recognised at the appeal as being the true and accurate one. (All documents and evidence are available).

David

10 November 2017 at 14:22

1. I applied for PPIS and ESA on the 22 August. Inly had my PIP assessment 2 weeks ago for PUPs and ESA next week. They told me application only received on 11 August because that is when they received firm. It could take 5 months for applications to cone through as PIPs people said it would take another 6-8 ,weeks. 2. Phone numbers are 55p a minute 0345 numbers. 3'Questions are deliberately deceptive. I have vision in only one eye and a detached retina in the other and anm partially sighted. I am an optimistic person. On a nine day.uf you ask me uf I have too many problems going out I would say not really. However if the sun's too bright or it's too dark and there are headlights in front of you it's a different matter.

M

10 November 2017 at 14:03

I have had ME/CFS, anxiety, depression, eating disorder and IBS all my life. I had a major flare up about 8 years ago and had to apply to ESA. That is when my condition became progressively worse, with each passing year. It is very stressful and debilitating for me. The process is, I'm afraid, useless and damaging. The yearly medical assessment is not fit for purpose, because it does not seem to have a purpose at all. The report that follow is always, invariably a very disheartening and humiliating experience; distracted and superficial at best and just made up things at its worst. Most unfortunately, it's the same for the Mandatory Reconsideration process. It all lacks in fairness and accuracy. It all feels like a cruel, contemptuous game of making people wait as long as possible and the waiting game feels like a torture. The experience of having to go to court is also excruciating. As my local legal centre is always too busy to accompany me, it is extremely unfair to have to defend oneself, when not well - to be expected to have the clarity of mind to fend off two people asking questions. The place, the setting, the meaning of it is intimidating enough - it is a 'court' after all.. I feel like a criminal, every single time. It is a terrifying experience. Still, every year, at the end of a very long process I have been placed in the Support Group by the court of appeal. Except last February, when I was feeling so unwell, I couldn't really answer the questions properly. I'd been placed in the WRAG; although in the report the judge did admit it would have been very difficult for me to attend any work related meeting. I am in the process of appealing to be placed back in the SG, as my physical and mental health have deteriorated further. Months considering suicide and hurting myself; not able to eat anything, besides milk and bread, unable to sleep. Too exhausted to be able to speak with my son, he comes back from college and looks after himself, as if he lived alone. The application process for PIP is exactly the same as for ESA; with even longer waiting-game time. I still have not received a court date, since applying last February. I have always been proactive regarding my condition, but for the past 7/8 years all that has gone. Having to rely on ESA/PIP has made my life a nightmare. I have never been so far from been able to work in my life! My suggestion in regards to this problem would be to scrap the medical assessment. Allow claimants to provide documentations from their doctors, who know their condition best. Provide basic payments when/if decisions are reviewed. I am not well enough to attend the JC, nor would I be able to comply with the contract's conditions. Please, make sure to include fluctuating conditions as ME/CFS, to be taken seriously - taking to account that there are no 'tests' for them, although they seriously affect people's lives; as well as anxiety and depression. There are also conditions that can only be managed with alternative medicine and supplements. Which seem to be an excuse for not been taken seriously. Allopathic medications are often very counterproductive for people with ME/CFS, due to the amount of side effects they give; which just make the already complicated fluctuating ME symptoms only worse. I am no expert in economy, but the process seems to make no financial sense at all. It seems very expensive indeed; with ATOS, Mandatory Reconsiderations and courts to be paid. Surely it might give some people jobs (ATOS, judges etc.), but… it makes many more very ill indeed and less able to work. And last but not least.. the waste of precious time. All the days and months wasted with more anxiety, more stress, less time spent with the people we love and care. All the days that I was/am not able to speak with my children, because I was/am made so ill by the whole bureaucratic process and its aftermath, will never come back. Is human life not precious anymore?

Charlotte

10 November 2017 at 13:57

The PIP assessment is a joke from beginning to end. I was recently booked in for a reassessment due to my condition worsening. I waited in all day, with my assistant staying for 2.5 hours. The assessor never turned up. My assistant regularly went outside to check, and we called and were told our assessment time had changed, and then to wait in. I rang back again to be told that the assessor claims I didn’t open the door. Even with my assistant calling and stating what happened, my case has now been handed back to the DWP who are likely to stop my benefit completely due to believing capita. As a claimant there is no way to fight your corner, and you are at the mercy of a very dishonest system. You are not only battling adversity in living with illness and disability, but an unfair system that penalises you for being unfortunate enough to be ill. The assessments themselves are equally dishonest and traumatic. Every question is designed to prove that the claimant is more able then they are. There are huge discrepancies between the answers to the questions in the interviews, and the actual written report handing in by capita. There is little provision to accommodate those with variable illness or mental health problems, and it is a truly horrific experience to put someone through. The help is supposedly going to ‘those that need it most’, but in reality, no matter how in need you are, this is no more then a lottery. Shame on the government for claiming that this is a fair and just system.

Maddy

10 November 2017 at 13:50

I was denied any PIP at all after my PIP assessment. This was clearly not the right decision. I have Asperger's Syndrome and a severe anxiety disorder which both restrict how independantly I am able to live my life and I rely a lot on my husband who is my carer. I am appealing the decision but I have now been waiting 8 months for my tribunal date. I have no idea how much longer I will have to wait. The lady who did my PIP assessment either had no knowledge of anxiety disorders and/or Asperger's, or actually lied. I do not know which. There were many things on the report she wrote down judgements on, which were incorrect, but these were things she did not even ask me about at the assessment. Other things she wrote down the complete opposite of what I said. The report was also full of inconsistencies. For example in one place she wrote the correct information that I told her, that I cannot use public transport alone, and that I cannot visit unfamiliar places alone, and I require prompting to visit familiar places alone. She wrote that down, and then proceeded to write in her judgement I therefore needed no assistance with mobility and scored zero points. Those things don't even make logical sense! The report was full of inconsistencies like that. My first mandatory reconsideration was a sham. I cannot speak to people on the phone due to my anxiety disorder so my husband handles all the phone calls for me. He requested a MR and the gentleman at the DWP agreed to wait for my written reasons before making a decision. A few days later I recieved my MR denying me any PIP, which had been written THE SAME DAY as the phone call requesting it! It was an absolute sham. My PIP denial and my subsequent 2 MRs both did not state that they had looked at any of the medical evidence I had provided them with my application. With my 'How my Disability Affects Me' form I supplied reams and reams of supporting information from GPs, psychiatrists, educational psychologists, mentors at university, etc etc to back up my claims. I am convinced that not one piece of this evidence was read by the decision makers at the DWP as no reference was made to it anywhere in any of the decisions. The decision maker simply said he based his decision on my form, and the assessment by the lady at Capita. There was no reference anywhere to the reams of information I provided. What is the point in asking claimants to supply additional information when the decision makers do not even read it?! The whole process has been extremely stressful. It has now been 14 months since I submitted my application and I am still waiting for a tribunal date to contest the decision. As someone with a severe anxiety disorder, this process has made me more ill. It has also had severe financial implications for me and my partner. Because we are both under 25, if I was recieving PIP, my partner would have been eligible to claim Working Tax Credits in his previous job as he was on a low-income and I was a full-time student working part-time on a low-income. I would have been able to claim Housing Benefit too as a student who claims disability benefits. However due to the PIP refusal not only did we lose that money but we also were then ineligible to claim Housing Benefit, ESA (as a student), or Working Tax Credits disability element, therefore we were significantly out-of-pocket. This caused us to incur our first debt of over £600 with our electricity provider which we are now in the process of gradually paying off. The whole thing has been horrendous and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

Total results 2826 (page 9 of 283)